A NC restaurant says that “Screaming Children Will Not Be Tolerated.” Old Salty’s Restaurant in Carolina Beach, NC, has signs posted saying “Screaming Children Will Not Be Tolerated” and “NOTICE TO ALL CHILEREN & ADULTS HERE WILL BE NO CRYING, SCREAMING, WHINING.”
Brenda Armes, the owner, says that “she got tired of hearing customers complain about screaming kids.” “We‘re not saying your child can‘t have fun. We‘re not saying your child can‘t be here.” She says that if your child is acting up, a restaurant worker will ask you to take the child outside.
This is a family restaurant, but not a family friendly restaurant. It is also not an Autism Friendly restaurant. I am offended that a restaurant like this would have this policy. I visit Carolina Beach several times a year. I have eaten at this restaurant. Luckily, they did not have this policy during our visits.
This restaurant is discriminating against families with babies. This restaurant is discriminating against families with young children. Most of all, this restaurant is discriminating against families with an autistic child. With more and more With the autism rates rising each year, this policy will affect a large percentage of the population. The owner states that they are not saying children are not welcomed. Really? How many times have you gone to a restaurant and your baby was quiet the whole time? How many times have you been to a restaurant and your toddler was a perfect angel? How many times have you been to a restaurant and your autistic child was perfectly well-behaved?
At least I know to avoid this restaurant in the future. I think this is horrible. I can’t help but wonder if it is legal for them to do this.
UPDATE: Check out this interview on Fox News
An autistic child has already been affected by this policy.
Luckily for us both my son and DH are allergic to sea food! hah! No worries about us going to eat there during our trip down south.
I agree with the restaurant owner. We all are aware that children won’t be quite at times. However, that not the issues. The problem begins when inconsiderate parents allow their infants to continue to scream without making any reasonable effort to remove them temporarily from the environment by going outside until they stop. The same is true for parents of brats that throw temper tantrums and act up, w/o being disciplined in constructive ways. Good riddance brats! No one wants to hear that while we’re relaxing over a meal.
I think you are being a little harsh. How do you know that the child is misbehaving vs. a child with a disability? I think you should try to be a little more sympathetic. Also, babies cry. Should parents be banned from restaurants if they have a baby with colic?
I have left a restaurant and grocery store when my child has outbursts and will not calm down. I’ve found that when he is overstimulated or tired is when he acts up.
Tammy,
I can see both points of view… there’s obviously a distinction to be drawn between a patient parent who is patiently dealing with a disabled child and a parent who neglects their otherwise normal kids to the detriment of the rest of the restaurant. I have seen both.
Good article, but I too am inclined to agree with the restaurant owner. It’s their business, and it’s their right (some would say, duty) to control the environment for their customers. The unfortunate truth is blanket statements like “no screaming kids” need to be made because a few bad apples have spoiled the whole barrel.
Do you smoke cigarettes? No? I hope you don’t mind if I pony up in the booth next to you and smoke a pack while while the kid releases some lung… I’ll likely need it, but hey, we can both be happy.
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Kent – The problem with the blanket policy of “no screaming kids” is that once one restaurant is allowed to post this policy, others may follow. Then what happens is that children with autism will not be able to go to a restaurant, or any other children with a disability that results in the child talking louder than normal or making “inappropriate sounds.” Is that fair? Although it has always been my policy to take my son out of a setting that upsets him, I don’t take remove him if he is fine, just making loud noises.
There’s so much contextual information that it’s difficult to make any kind of judgement call. I mean, if your not pleased with the service or the policy, vote with your feet and don’t go back to the restaurant? That restaurant is ultimately there for profit, it’s their loss if you decide to go down the street? Every environment comes with a set of expectations, and the unfortunate truth is that every environment isn’t going to be tailored to your son’s needs. I can’t pretend to know your struggle in all it’s details, and I wouldn’t ever suggest that I know how you feel… but it’s obviously frustrating for you (and your family). I’m a solution focused individual… the win-win solution is the find a dining establishment that wants your business? It should be all but obvious that this particular business doesn’t… and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with that. There are no shortage of organization designed specifically to serve the autisitic community, it would seem foolish if we were to expect them to serve everyone in every circumstance… why do you expect everyone to reciprocate?
Another hypothetical case… let’s pretend for a moment that there is an employee at that restaurant who can’t function around loud noises, an employee whom also has a disability… who has rights in that situation? Should we tell him to go home, or just outright quit? Should we fire him because he can’t fulfill the basic expectations of the job? Or, should we accommodate him by putting the sign you saw on the door, on the door? Who knows what the real situation is.
Did you ask the for a manager? What was the response?
http://try-therapy.com
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Hi Kent. I don’t expect to be accommodated at every establishment. This is a restaurant that has established a written policy about children making noises in the restaurant. My problem with this is explained in my response to Crystal. It is not conjecture that our children are misunderstood. It is not conjecture that people look at us like we are bad parents. When one organization is allowed to implement such a policy, it is not unreasonable to assume that others will, too. Then what happens? If it is not stopped now, will there be a restaurant that will allow us to bring our autistic or disabled children to? Do I wait to voice my opinion of this policy until we have reached that point?
I think the owner is just stating the obvious. Any decent parent would take their child outside if they were screaming and crying in a restaurant. We’ve had a few sit down dinners that went perfectly and a few where our youngest started crying. Rather than disturb the other guests, I took her outside until she calmed down. It’s simple and it’s respectful.
I guess I don’t see how this discriminates against children with disabilities.
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Cat – If you were a parent of an autistic child, you would. No offense. There are also other disabilities that a child can have that cause people to look at them and think he/she is just acting like a “brat.” With the rising number of children diagnosed as ASD each year, this kind of policy would prevent a large amount of families from taking their child to a restaurant if this kind of policy became accepted by society.
You’re are very correct, I don’t have an autistic child, nor do I understand the disability very well, which is why I don’t understand how it discriminates. But the fact of the matter is, a disruptive child (autistic or not) has no place in a restaurant. That’s not discrimination, that’s a restaurant asking parent’s to respect patrons as a whole.
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Well if you dont understand the disability very well then why are you commenting on it. I dont judge how you deal with your children. I expect the same
By the grace of God you dont have an autistic child, but if you did are you saying you would not bring him or her to a restaurant? Or for that matter out in public at all. Yes you can tell you know nothing about autism.
Not all kids are the same. Have you ever had to exit with an autistic child? Let me anserw that with your comment in mind. NO. I am sure that their are things my child can do that yours can’t, does that mean I have the right to discriminate against your child because of their short comings. No. We do not need to start behaving as if ever child is the same and fits into a nice little box. All blond hair and blue eyed didnt work for Hitler either.
I’ve had to leave a situation because my very autistic sister has had a meltdown and I still agree with Cat.
Also, I think bringing Hitler into this is a bit counterproductive. She’s saying that everyone has rights that deserve to be respected. That’s valid in my opinion.
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We put up with children acting up in church, no one says anything about it. Why should a restaurant be any better? I agree parents should teach their kids to behave, but shit happens.
Listen…I understand both points of view but let’s not be foolish here. Children with disabilities or without disabilities will cause a disruption at more than one point in their lives. Can parents control this? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. All that is being asked here is that regardless of the situation if the child is in a public place and they are being disruptive to others they should be taken out of the location until they are no longer disruptive. That’s all! Let’s not turn this into a debate on what is considered disruptive and what isn’t. That’s just ridiculous. You know when your child is doing something that is upsetting others. And frankly, no one should have to sit and endure a child screaming (for whatever reason) just because a parent doesn’t want to take responsibility for the situation. It may seem harsh, but it’s true. In some instances you can’t control what your child does (in the case with some disabilities). However, that doesn’t excuse how that affects strangers around them. The children should simply be taken out of the public area until they are calmed down. No ones is suggesting to HIDE your children or discriminate against them.
I totally support this and hope that other public arenas choose to do the same.
I disagree. I think the policy can lead to discriminating against our children. The policy allows restaurant employees to ask you to take your child out if he/she is being loud. It doesn’t just apply to a child that is crying or throwing a tantrum. An autistic child can be well behaved in a restaurant, yet make loud sounds involuntarily. Same goes for children with some other disabilities. Their actions or vocalizing could be non-voluntary, yet would be asked to leave a restaurant with this policy. Is that fair? I don’t think so. I understand why the restaurant owner wants this policy, but it is the kind of thing that will lead to a lot of heartache for parents like me and my son. It’s one restaurant that I can no longer take my son to when I go to Carolina Beach. What happens if other restaurants enact such a policy? How many restaurants will we not be allowed into if it because an acceptable policy?
Sorry, but if your child is acting up and screaming and crying, it is up to YOU, the parent, to remove him/her from the restaurant until such time as he/she is calmed and quieted down. Why is this such a difficult thing for people to get? It’s part of parenting. If parents don’t want to do their jobs, why become a parent in the first place. Parenting is not about letting your child do whatever the heck they want. Other paying customers are there to enjoy a peaceful meal. This ain’t Chuck E. Cheese. If a baby were crying in a movie theater would you put up with that too?
Honestly!
There’s a difference in a child acting up, crying and screaming vs. a child with a disability that can’t help himself. Should the disabled child (one that looks like any other child) be discriminated against for behaving in what is an acceptable way for him? If he/she makes loud noises, talks too loud, or does something that another restaurant patron or employee finds distracting, should that child not be allowed to go to restaurants? No, it’s not a Chuck E. Cheese type restaurant that has implemented the policy, but it is a family-type restaurant.
This is upsetting.
Tammy, as I said in my earlier post, I think everyone can be rational enough to see what is disruptive and what isn’t. Talking too loud or making a noise that might be disruptive is much different than a temper tantrum which is NOT acceptable. A child with a disability can be explained simply to staff.
And no one is talking about anyone getting fined or put in jail here. This is just what one private business owner has done because they are sick and tired of losing business from bratty unruly children and parents not being willing to do anything about their own children’s behavior. Will it set a precident for others…possibly. In which case, DON’T go there if you feel you don’t support this.
I find it hard to believe that our government will allow anyone to pass a law to keep children with disabilities out of certain places. Let’s get back to reality.
For one, I am thankful for this. I’ve walked out of SEVERAL establishments because of a child throwing a fit and a parent ignoring them expecting others to tune them out too. It’s ridiculous!
We can sit here and be rational, but I keep thinking about a recent story that took place at a restaurant. A father of an autistic boy was punched because his son was making noises at an Olive Garden. The restaurant employees came to the aid of the man that punched him, not the father of the boy. The other man had demanded that the father make the boy be quiet. When the father tried to explain that his son was autistic, the man said some mean things and punched the father. The employees were more concerned about the man that was out of line, than the father that was assaulted. Luckily, the police were able to get the complete story of what happened from the other people eating at the restaurant, and the man that assaulted the father was arrested.
When you think of that, can’t you see why I am upset about the policy? Not everyone is rational. People have a tendency to think it’s our fault and that our kids are trouble makers. Some people take offense to loud noises or loud talking. A policy that allows employees to ask customers to leave will lead to our families not being allowed in restaurants like this. Or I should say, we can go, but we would be asked to leave.
WOW!! I would not be eating there!!
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I can see the owner’s point, HOWEVER, the way in which she speaks about autism is deplorable. Fine if she doesn’t want screaming kids…I wouldn’t want to go there anyway, but she came off as quite the idiot (I would like to use stronger language) when she spoke about autism. *That* is my problem with it.
I agree with Jen. The restaurant owner had a chance to redeem herself and apologize if her sign seemed like she was discriminating against handicap children. But did she? NO. Her words and attitude said, “it isn’t my fault you have a kid like that. I don’t want them here, get over it.” What a nice lady! She should have kept good PR and fixed it all by saying, “I am sorry if I came across as discriminatory. I understand those children cannot help it.” And changed her sign to read “Parents of misbehaving, not handicap, children will be asked to step out of the restaurant with the child.”
How hard is that?
I agree that it is common courtesy for a tired cranky kid to leave so every one else can eat in peace. I also agree that an autistic child that screams a high pitch scream out of the blue should be allowed to go back to eating after that outburst without intrusion from staff.
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Do any of you hear what you are saying. Having a misbehaved child is not having an autistic child. were did you get you education, Dollar General U. I am a firm believer in what goes around comes around. One in every four children today are born with autism. Maybe if it happened to one of their children or even their grandchildren. Old Salty’s is just that to old and to salty
Webster’s college dictionary definition of discriminate- judge, treat differently on the basis of race, class, sex, etc.
Hi Tammy,
I have to say that I think this policy is great and I would like to see more of it. I should mention that my sister is severely autistic and is one of the people who would likely not be allowed in this establishment – so I am not without sympathy.
I believe that there should be a range of restaurants available to all kinds of people for all kinds of circumstances. But that means that people without children who want to have a quiet meal should also have options. I really resent going to a restaurant that is not a family restaurant and being subjected to screaming kids, obnoxious drunks, or anyone who otherwise is not able to control their behavior. I think this restaurant is doing people a service by clearly stating their terms.
But it goes both ways – if I go to a family restaurant, a fast food joint, a child friendly film, a recreation centre or a library with a play area – I should expect noisiness and I shouldn’t complain about it. There should be places where all of us can go.
As for my sister, I would never subject her to a restaurant or environment that is inappropriate for her. She is not able to control her vocalizations, is prone to tantrums and cannot sit still for long periods of time. Bringing her to a restaurant that doesn’t take these needs into consideration is selfish of me. It would be because *I* want to eat there because generally my sister isn’t too fussed. I believe there is room for all of us to have full access and enjoyment of a range of services and options within our communities.
Great discussion on here.
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One more quick point – I don’t believe that because one restaurant does this suddenly they will all follow suit and there will be nowhere to go. The food industry makes a fortune off of families – there will *always* be family friendly options.
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